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In this episode of ProductCamp Conversations, Allison Herbert and Dave Mathias sit down with Twin Cities product leader Andrew Mogendorff, founder of the Twin Cities Product Leaders meetup and now leading digital transformation at Portico Benefit Services, to explore why the best product people act as the guide, not the hero. Drawing on years at Target, his time leading product and UX at Northmarq, and his ProductCamp Twin Cities talk "Product Thinking for Non-Product People," Andrew shares how plain language, patience, and "show and tell" help an organization mature its product practice one step at a time.

📌 Topics Covered:

• From "really terrible developer" to tester to product leader, and helping Target move from project and waterfall to product and agile

• Learning a new domain (commercial real estate, then benefits) by asking the dumb questions out loud, because someone else in the room has the same question

• ProductCamp Twin Cities "Product Thinking for Non-Product People" (co-presented with Mike Lindberg): a step-by-step roadmap, meeting people where they are, and being the guide instead of the hero

• "Here's what we heard, here's what we're planning to do, and here's why": plain-language quarterly planning and outcome scorecards built on efficiency, effectiveness, user happiness, and tech efficiency

• Bringing engineers closer to customers through developer-led demos and on-site story mapping, including the ColdFusion rewrite where one developer saved two months with "that's one story"

• AI pilot teams at Portico that pair a technical person with a business person, small teams with "role softness," and why to start with retros (and act on what you hear)

• How a lunch with a mentor became the Twin Cities Product Leaders meetup: no agenda, no sales pitches, nearly 160 people in Slack, and first Wednesdays at Bear Cave Brewing

• Rapid fire: why "anything waterfall is bad" no longer holds, and the best feedback he got from Andy Cerio: "stop, draw the story map"

📚 Referenced:

• The Phoenix Project — Gene Kim, Kevin Behr, and George Spafford: https://itrevolution.com/product/the-phoenix-project/

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🔗 CONNECT WITH GUEST ANDREW MOGENDORFF:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmogendorff/

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🎙️ CONNECT WITH THE HOSTS:

• Allison Herbert:

- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aherbert42

- Website: https://allisonherbert.com

• Dave Mathias:

- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davemathias1

- X / Twitter: https://x.com/davemathias

- Website: https://gobeyondthedata.com

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📩 GET IN TOUCH:

Have thoughts on this episode or want to suggest a topic/guest?

Drop a comment below or reach out at productcampconversations@gmail.com!

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