In Episode 21 of We Can Work It Out, Dr Jonathan Lord travels to Westminster to meet Karl Turner MP, Member of Parliament for Kingston upon Hull East, for a fascinating conversation about maritime trade unionism, working-class politics and the remarkable life of his father, Ken Turner.

Growing up in a household where trade unionism and politics were part of everyday life, Karl recalls how his father's commitment to fairness, solidarity and workers' rights shaped his own political beliefs. Ken Turner began his working life as a merchant seafarer before becoming a prominent official of the National Union of Seamen (NUS) and subsequently the RMT, dedicating decades to representing maritime workers.

Karl shares extraordinary memories of his father's involvement in some of Britain's most significant maritime industrial disputes, including the 1966 seamen's strike and the bitter confrontations with P&O during the 1980s. Among the remarkable stories is Ken's involvement in organising industrial action, collecting strike funds and facing a £1 million legal claim from P&O during a period when trade unions were increasingly constrained by legislation.

The conversation also explores Hull's maritime heritage and the transformation of British shipping. Once a major source of secure, relatively well-paid employment, the industry experienced profound changes through globalisation, flags of convenience, declining trade union membership and the increasing use of lower-paid international labour.

Drawing connections between these historical struggles and contemporary employment relations, Jonathan and Karl discuss the mass dismissal of almost 800 P&O Ferries workers in March 2022. Their discussion considers the findings of the University of Salford research report, The Impact of Mass Dismissals on Maritime Workers, and questions whether the government's response has gone far enough to prevent similar events.

Karl reflects on what his father would have thought about P&O's actions, arguing that Ken would have been outraged but unsurprised. They also examine the responsibilities of multinational shipping companies, the importance of effective employment protections and whether strategically important maritime routes should be brought into public ownership.

Beyond maritime employment, the episode considers the historical relationship between the Labour Party and the trade union movement. Karl discusses the influence of his predecessor, John Prescott, the importance of working-class political representation and his concerns about the changing relationship between organised labour and parliamentary politics.

The conversation concludes with Karl's reflections on Ken Turner's legacy and his choice of former RMT General Secretary Bob Crow as one of the most influential figures in the world of work.

Ultimately, this episode is a personal and revealing exploration of family, trade union history, political conviction and the continuing struggle for dignity and fairness at work.

Enjoy the discussion

Around 80% of world trade by volume is carried by sea, yet the people who make global shipping possible often remain largely invisible.

In Episode 20 of We Can Work It Out, I’m joined by Dr Jason Zuidema, General Secretary of the International Christian Maritime Association (ICMA), to explore the working lives of seafarers and the importance of welfare, dignity and human connection at sea.

Jason has worked in seafarers’ welfare since 1997 and describes the problem of 'sea blindness': we depend upon shipping every day without necessarily seeing the workers behind it. Seafarers can spend months away from their families, living and working in the same environment while dealing with fatigue, isolation and the pressures of an increasingly efficient global shipping industry.

We discuss the work of ICMA and its international network supporting seafarers, fishers and their families. Jason explains how maritime welfare can range from providing transport, Wi-Fi and practical assistance in port to helping workers facing unpaid wages, abandonment, mental-health difficulties or employment problems. Although ICMA is a Christian organisation, its services are provided to seafarers regardless of nationality, religion, culture, gender or ethnic origin.

The conversation explores mental health, suicide prevention, family separation and shore leave, including concerns that many seafarers have little or no opportunity to leave their vessels during a contract. We also examine how technology has transformed communication with home while potentially allowing work to intrude further into rest periods.

Jason discusses the Maritime Labour Convention, describing it as an important international minimum standard but emphasising that it should represent a floor rather than a ceiling for seafarers’ working conditions.

We also consider seafarer abandonment, the challenges of enforcing rights across an international industry, geopolitical conflict and the dangers faced by civilian crews operating in areas affected by war.

The episode returns to the P&O Ferries dismissals of 2022, particularly the mental-health consequences of losing not only employment but also professional identity and workplace community.

Despite these challenges, Jason remains optimistic about the future, describing seafaring as an honourable profession and reminding us that behind global shipping are people whose work, sacrifice and wellbeing deserve far greater recognition.

Enjoy the discussion.

Can a three-minute song change someone's politics? Can music encourage people to become activists, support workers in struggle or even join a political movement?

In Episode 19 of We Can Work It Out, I welcome back Professor Gregor Gall to discuss his new book, Marxism in Music: Constructing a Communist Contra-Culture with The Redskins, Rock ’n’ Roll and Revolution.

At the centre of our conversation are The Redskins, the revolutionary socialist band that emerged during the political turmoil of early-1980s Britain. Against a backdrop of Thatcherism, mass unemployment, deindustrialisation and industrial conflict, the band attempted to combine popular music with an explicitly socialist message.

We discuss their involvement in the 1984–85 miners’ strike, including their numerous benefit gigs and support for striking miners, and explore why the band wanted to “walk like The Clash and sing like The Supremes”.

Gregor explains the important distinction between counterculture and contra-culture, arguing that socialist movements have historically concentrated on economic and political struggles while paying considerably less attention to culture as a means of influencing ideas.

But did The Redskins actually change people?

Drawing on testimony from more than 100 people, Gregor explains how the band's music introduced listeners to socialist ideas, encouraged political activism and helped sustain political commitment.

We also explore the contradictions of producing anti-capitalist music within a capitalist music industry and compare The Redskins with The Clash, Billy Bragg, The Housemartins and Easterhouse.

Finally, we bring the discussion into the present. In an age of Spotify, YouTube, TikTok and algorithm-driven culture, could a political band like The Redskins have the same influence today?

Music may not change society by itself, but it can introduce ideas, create solidarity and encourage people to act. Enjoy the discussion.

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