In this episode of Messy Social Work, Tim and Rich begin with a conversation about shame, connection, and the ways we "make our own social worlds". Reflecting on Margaret Wheatley's work, they explore how small acts of openness can shape relationships, meetings, and everyday interactions.

They are then joined by Jordel Bennett, fatherhood advocate, trainer, family group decision-making facilitator and lived-experience practitioner. Drawing on his experience growing up in London as a Black Caribbean man, becoming a young father, studying law, and supporting fathers navigating child protection and family court processes, Jordel offers a powerful perspective on how fathers experience helping systems.

Together they discuss:

• Why fathers are often treated as an "add-on" rather than a core part of family life
• Trust, risk and why some fathers find it difficult to engage with professionals
• The difference between being child-focused and case-focused
• How social workers can build stronger relationships with fathers and paternal families
• The role of family networks, identity and belonging in children's lives
• The importance of curiosity, humanity and inclusive practice

The episode concludes with a reading from Rainer Maria Rilke's Letters to a Young Poet, reflecting on fear, sadness and the possibility that what troubles us most may be asking for understanding rather than avoidance.

"Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."

A thoughtful conversation about fathers, relationships, participation, and what more inclusive social work might look like.

What is social work really for?

In this special episode, Rich and Tim sit down with Dr Beverly Barnett-Jones MBE, one of the most influential voices in British social work, for a conversation that spans personal history, political activism, healing, community, and the future of the profession.

Beverly reflects on how her experiences as a child growing up in a kinship arrangement, her identity as a Black British woman of Windrush heritage, and decades of frontline and leadership experience shaped her approach as a social worker, advocate, and what she describes as a "caring disruptor."

Together, the conversation explores the work of social work pioneer Bertha Capen Reynolds, whose writing on power, poverty, dignity, and community still feels startlingly relevant today. They discuss social work's relationship with activism, the dangers of dependency narratives, the importance of walking alongside families, and whether social workers should see themselves as witnesses, healers, or agents of social change.

Along the way, Beverly speaks candidly about therapy, faith, forgiveness, racial inequality, professional power, and her growing conviction that communities themselves must play a greater role in shaping the systems that affect their children and families.

This is a rich, thoughtful conversation about social work's past, present and future, and a reminder that some of the most important work happens not in offices or procedures, but at the crossroads of ordinary life.

Topics include:

• Bertha Capen Reynolds and Social Work and Social Living
• Social work as activism and advocacy
• Race, identity and the care system
• Healing, therapy, faith and forgiveness
• Power, dependency and professional authority
• Co-production and community leadership
• What it means to truly walk alongside families

“You can't be a witness unless you do something.” – Beverly Barnett-Jones

In this special 100th episode of The Messy Social Work Podcast, Rich Devine and Tim Fisher hit pause to reflect on the journey so far. Armed with a list of 100 AI-generated questions inspired by their previous episodes, they take each other on a whistle-stop tour through five years of conversations, debates, learning, and occasional technical disasters.

Together they explore what they've learned from speaking with academics, practitioners, people with lived experience, and thought leaders from across and beyond social work. They discuss the limits of concepts such as trauma-informed practice, the importance of professional curiosity, systemic thinking, humility, relationships, and the enduring complexity of child protection work.

Along the way, they revisit some of their most memorable guests, reflect on how the podcast has evolved, share what drives each other slightly mad, and wrestle with one of the biggest questions of all: what is social work actually for?

Part celebration, part stocktake, and part conversation between two friends who have spent 100 episodes thinking out loud together, this episode offers a candid glimpse behind the scenes of the podcast and the ideas that continue to shape it.

Thank you to everyone who has listened, contributed, challenged, shared, and joined us for the journey so far.