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Late Night Leadership

Late Night Leadership

Autor: Kate Nicholroy and Maddie Fox
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For forward-thinking senior leaders who want to strengthen their leadership and build teams that thrive. We explore what shapes culture, how teams can think and work better together and the real challenges that show up inside organisations.

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  • Embodied Leadership: Why You Can’t Think Your Way Out of a Habit

    Embodied Leadership: Why You Can’t Think Your Way Out of a Habit
    Oct 23 2026
    You know you say yes to too much, or go quiet, or get short with people in a certain kind of meeting, and you’ve probably known for years, and yet the minute the pressure’s on, there you are doing it again. In this embodied leadership special, Maddie (who trained in the Strozzi approach) explains it to Kate as if she were a sceptical finance director: why self-awareness only gets you so far, what your body picks up before your brain catches up, and what it takes to respond differently when it counts. In this episode Why the habits that trip us up under pressure were often clever responses to the places we grew up in, and why that makes them so hard to shiftFight, flight, freeze and appease, and Kate’s old boss’s “plateau of apathy”Early warning signs in the body, from raised shoulders to a tight jaw, and how to find where you hold tension if you can’t feel it yetSigal Barsade’s emotional contagion study, where one actor shifted the mood of a whole group without anyone noticing where it came fromWhy three deep breaths in the middle of a crisis rarely work, and what practising somewhere low-stakes (Euston Station, in Maddie’s case) gives you instead Try this Pick one transition you make most days: between video calls, before a 1:1, or on the way to the school gates. Before you go in, take a minute to feel your feet on the floor, lengthen your spine, soften your shoulders, let your jaw go and take a couple of breaths low into your belly. Notice what you’re carrying in from the last thing, whether that’s urgency, tension or distraction, and if it helps, clench your fists or hike your shoulders up hard and then let them go. Then ask yourself what you want to bring to the next conversation. Do it on the days when nothing is on fire, so it’s there for the days when something is. And have a reason in mind that matters to you, because “for the sake of what?” will keep you going for longer than willpower will. Over to you Euston Station is where every bit of Maddie tenses up and she’s ready to shoulder her way through the crowd. Where’s yours? Tell us the everyday, low-stakes place that winds you up and could double as your practice ground. Write to us at hello@latenightleadership.com. Research and resources Richard Strozzi-Heckler, The Leadership Dojo (2007) and The Anatomy of Change (1984). The approach Maddie trained in, and the source of the idea that it takes around 300 repetitions to build muscle memory and 3,000 to embody a change. That’s a practitioner’s rule of thumb from decades of teaching, rather than a research finding. https://strozziinstitute.comAmanda Blake, Your Body Is Your Brain (2018). Neuroscience and somatics together, and Kate’s verdict is “a banger”.Sigal G. Barsade (2002), “The Ripple Effect: Emotional Contagion and Its Influence on Group Behavior”, Administrative Science Quarterly. The study with the drama student and the pot of money. https://doi.org/10.2307/3094912 Jim Dethmer, Diana Chapman and Kaley Klemp, The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership (2014). Where “above the line” and “below the line” come from. Harvard Business Review, “If You Aspire to Be a Great Leader, Be Present”, Rasmus Hougaard and Jacqueline Carter (2017). The article Maddie mentions on getting present before the next meeting. https://hbr.org/2017/12/if-you-aspire-to-be-a-great-leader-be-present Past episode: being above or below the line. [SERIES 1, EPISODE 2]Further reading: the fire commander who pulled his crew out moments before the floor collapsed, without being able to say why, is usually traced to Gary Klein’s research on expert intuition, written up in Sources of Power (1998). Next episode 6 Nov: Standing your ground vs preserving the relationship. Where do you usually sit, what would it be like to step towards the less familiar side, and can you do both at once? Enjoying the show? Follow us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, and a rating or review makes a real difference to a small podcast like ours. About your hosts Kate Nicholroy (Good Ideas Agency, https://www.goodideasagency.com) and Maddie Fox (MadFox Group, https://www.madfoxgroup.com) are coaches who work with senior leaders and their teams, and Late Night Leadership grew out of the conversations we keep having with them and with each other. Produced by Tim Fox. Music by Richard Flindell. Late Night Leadership was formerly A Curious Space.
    Rozwiń Zwiń
    38 min
  • Confident or Vulnerable? Leading when the plan is a best guess

    Confident or Vulnerable? Leading when the plan is a best guess
    Oct 9 2026
    This episode explores the tension between confidence and vulnerability in leadership, showing when each serves you and when it can harm outcomes. Confidence vs Vulnerability: How Much Should a Leader Show? You're asking investors to back a plan you know is partly a best guess, or you're a few weeks into a new role and everyone's waiting for you to set direction in a business you've barely got to know. Kate and Maddie look at the pull between projecting confidence and being open about what you don't know yet: what each one does for you, what happens when you lean too far either way, and how to work out which end you tend to default to. In this episode Why the most confident voice in the room tends to win the argument, even when it isn't the right oneOverestimation, overplacement and overprecision: three kinds of overconfidence, and the signs you might be leaning on one of themA neurosurgeon who pairs complete certainty about what needs to happen with an open conversation about the optionsProcess, outcome and emotional vulnerability, and why it's usually the emotional kind that makes leaders want the ground to swallow themWhen sharing how you feel helps your team, and when it hands them something heavy to carry Try this: this week, pair confidence with vulnerability in the way you talk to your team. If you tend to lead with uncertainty, swap "I don't know if this will work" for something like "There are parts of this project I'm still working out, and I'm confident in our ability to figure them out together." If you tend to lead with certainty, try "I'm confident this is the right direction, and please tell me if there's anything else we should be thinking about." Notice which one felt harder to say, as that's probably a clue about which end of the spectrum you spend less time at. Over to you Kate has said "overindex" so many times while planning this series that it's stopped sounding like a word. If you've got a better one, we'd love to hear it. Write to us at hello@latenightleadership.com. Research and resources Jessica A. Kennedy, Cameron Anderson and Don A. Moore (2013), "When overconfidence is revealed to others: Testing the status-enhancement theory of overconfidence", Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes. The research behind the idea that confidence, even when it isn't justified, raises your status with peers. https://escholarship.org/uc/item/4d61t8rgDon A. Moore and Paul J. Healy (2008), "The trouble with overconfidence", Psychological Review. Where the three "overs" come from. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18426301/Brené Brown, Atlas of the Heart (2021). Grounded confidence, humility, armouring, and "I'm here to get it right, not to be right", a line that came out of her Dare to Lead research. [ADD LINK]Brené Brown, "The power of vulnerability", TED talk (2010). Vulnerability as uncertainty, risk and emotional exposure. https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_the_power_of_vulnerabilityEdgar H. Schein, Humble Inquiry: The Gentle Art of Asking Instead of Telling (2013; second edition with Peter Schein, 2021). Asking questions as an act of vulnerability that builds trust, and a very thin book, if you want something to read next. Kevin Novak on three types of vulnerability in leadership: process, outcome and emotional. https://www.2040digital.com/change-and-transformation-leadership/leading-with-measured-vulnerability/ Past episode: the 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership (Jim Dethmer, Diana Chapman and Kaley Klemp), and being "above" or "below the line". Season 1, Episode 2: how-culture-is-shaped-leaders-foundersPast episode: emotional contagion. Season 1, Episode 2: how-culture-is-shaped-leaders-foundersFurther reading: the idea that showing vulnerability after you've shown competence makes you more likeable is often traced to Elliot Aronson's "pratfall effect" research from the 1960s, though later studies have found the effect depends a lot on context. Next episode 23rd October: Our embodied leadership special. The easiest way to find out what that is? Listen next time. Enjoying the show? Follow us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, and a rating or review makes a real difference to a small podcast like ours. About your hosts Kate Nicholroy (Good Ideas Agency, https://www.goodideasagency.com) and Maddie Fox (MadFox Group, https://www.madfoxgroup.com) are coaches who work with senior leaders and their teams, and Late Night Leadership grew out of the conversations we kept having with them. Produced by Tim Fox. Music by Richard Flindell. Late Night Leadership was formerly A Curious Space.
    Rozwiń Zwiń
    33 min
  • Welcome to Late Night Leadership: Why some leadership problems aren't meant to be solved

    Welcome to Late Night Leadership: Why some leadership problems aren't meant to be solved
    Sep 25 2026

    Why some leadership problems aren't meant to be solved

    We're back, with a new name and a new season! If you found us before as A Curious Space, it's still the two of us, with all the research, ideas and experience you know, but Late Night Leadership is focused on leadership itself: the joys, challenges and tensions that make it so interesting, talked through the way you would late at night with a trusted friend (the thoughtful kind of late night, not the 3am panic).

    This launch episode introduces Season 1, The Leader in the Room, which is all about leading yourself. Some leadership problems have a clear answer, so you make the call and move on. Others are polarities, where two things are true at once and pull you in opposite directions, like short-term results and long-term strategy, control and autonomy, or caring for people and driving performance. Treat those as problems to fix and leaders can burn out and teams can stall, and there's some real relief in realising the tension was never meant to resolve.

    In this episode - What a polarity is, and how it differs from a problem you solve once - What over-indexing looks like, with the classic numbers person and people person example - Why the discomfort of holding a tension makes us want to jump to a resolution, and why tolerating it for a little longer can lead to a better choice - Using what's happening in your body as data, and a return to the above and below the line model from Series 1 - Standing your ground without losing yourself, and why "I didn't have a choice" is worth getting curious about - What's coming this season: confidence vs vulnerability, conviction vs curiosity, standing your ground vs preserving the relationship, a deep dive into embodied leadership, and a few guest conversations along the way

    Try this Before the next episode, pick a challenge you're facing, ideally one that keeps coming back. Can you see it as a polarity? What's the opposite of the choice you keep making, and does looking at it that way give you a different perspective or a different way forward?

    Over to you What's the tension you feel most as a leader? Write and tell us at hello@latenightleadership.com, because we'd love to weave listeners' tensions into episodes as the series goes on..

    Over to you What's the tension you feel most as a leader? Write and tell us at hello@latenightleadership.com, because we'd love to weave listeners' tensions into episodes as the series goes on.

    Research and resources - The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership by Jim Dethmer, Diana Chapman and Kaley Warner Klemp, the source of the above and below the line model: https://conscious.is/15-commitments - From our back catalogue: Series 1, Episode 2, "How culture is shaped: leaders and founders", where we first talked about the line model: https://latenightleadership.com/episode/2-how-culture-is-shaped-leaders-founders - Further reading: Polarity Management: Identifying and Managing Unsolvable Problems by Barry Johnson, the book that much of today's thinking about polarities grows from: https://www.polaritypartnerships.com/products

    Next episode Friday 9 October: confidence vs vulnerability, where each helps and where it gets in the way.

    Enjoying the show? Follow us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, and if you enjoyed our earlier seasons, a rating or review makes a real difference to a small podcast like ours. The whole back catalogue is still in this feed and on our new website: https://latenightleadership.com

    About your hosts Kate Nicholroy (Good Ideas Agency, https://www.goodideasagency.com) and Maddie Fox (MadFox Group, https://www.madfoxgroup.com) are coaches who work with senior leaders and their teams, and Late Night Leadership grew out of the conversations we kept having with them.

    Produced by Tim Fox. Music by Richard Flindell.

    Late Night Leadership was formerly A Curious Space.
    Rozwiń Zwiń
    13 min
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