Dr. Elizabeth Economy sits down with Dr. Rowena He to explore her journey from participating in pro-democracy demonstrations during the 1989 Tiananmen protests to becoming a leading scholar on Chinese human rights. She recounts how the June 4th crackdown shattered her generation's hopes, forcing survivors to publicly conform while doing their best to keep the memory of the movement alive. The two then turn to He’s experience teaching at the Chinese University of Hong Kong during the 2019 protests, where she supported students while drawing connections to 1989, before being forced to flee Hong Kong in 2022 under threatening circumstances. He emphasizes that international support and pressure on human rights remain crucial, not just morally but practically, since human rights violations in China ultimately impact the entire world, and insists that despite decades of setbacks, history will ultimately favor those fighting for truth and justice.

Recorded on January 12, 2026.

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy sits down with Patrick McGee, Financial Times technology journalist and author of "Apple in China," discussing how Apple's deep integration into China's manufacturing ecosystem inadvertently helped build China into the industrial powerhouse it is today. McGee traces Apple's journey from near-bankruptcy in the late 1990s to becoming deeply dependent on Chinese manufacturing, explaining how Apple didn't just outsource production but actively trained Chinese factories and transferred sophisticated manufacturing knowledge that later benefited competitors like Huawei and Xiaomi. The two explore critical inflection points, including Apple's partnership with Foxconn, political tensions with Xi Jinping's government in 2013, and Tim Cook's decision to double down on China rather than diversify despite growing risks. McGee argues that Apple's current dependence on China is so profound that meaningful diversification to India or the United States faces enormous practical and economic obstacles, with Chinese manufacturing capabilities now potentially surpassing Apple's own expertise. The episode concludes with McGee advocating for a realistic U.S. policy that accepts manufacturing across allies, while warning that Americans fundamentally underestimate how technologically sophisticated China has become.

Recorded on December 10, 2025.

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.

Dr. Elizabeth Economy talks with Dr. Bonny Lin about China's evolving security posture and military ambitions under Xi Jinping. Lin explains how China's goals extend beyond regional dominance to achieving global parity with or superiority over the United States, tracing major inflection points including South China Sea island-building, military reforms, and the strategic partnership with Russia following its invasion of Ukraine. The two then discuss ongoing purges within the Chinese military, and in turn, what these upheavals mean for military competence and readiness. The conversation then turns to Taiwan, where Lin argues that Xi Jinping's conditions for unification have become far more stringent than his predecessors and warns that the late 2020s could be particularly dangerous for cross-strait relations. They conclude with an analysis of the broader implications of China's alignment with Russia, North Korea, and Iran, and recommendations for U.S. policy to capitalize on Chinese missteps while strengthening alliances.

Recorded on November 11, 2025.

ABOUT THE SERIES

China Considered with Elizabeth Economy is a Hoover Institution podcast series that features in-depth conversations with leading political figures, scholars, and activists from around the world. The series explores the ideas, events, and forces shaping China’s future and its global relationships, offering high-level expertise, clear-eyed analysis, and valuable insights to demystify China’s evolving dynamics and what they may mean for ordinary citizens and key decision makers across societies, governments, and the private sector.