This week I continue my conversation with the Rev. Dr. Lillian Daniel, Conference Minister of the Michigan Conference of the United Church of Christ and author of Defrocked: Good News from a Bad Pastor for a Better Church. If you haven’t heard Part 1, you might want to start with Episode 8 (but you don't have to!).

CW: Our conversation covers briefly the topic of childhood sexual abuse

In this half of the conversation, we turned to the questions that decide whether anyone actually makes it through the church door. We talked about Defrocked’s chapter on locked doors, what it’s like to be shut out of church when you most need it, and why “everyone is welcome here” isn’t the same as “we designed this with you in mind.”

Several themes came up, including:

• Preaching with conviction, surprising people, and why curiosity matters more than a degree
• Sharing resources ecumenically, from offices and Wi-Fi to clergy
• Why the most important person in the church is the one who isn’t there yet
• Hospitality, mission, and evangelism: finding language for invitation that doesn’t feel like a pamphlet on the doorstep
• Signs of hope, including intergenerational worship, accessible space, and welcoming people with different kinds of minds and bodies
• Why a church is either open to the public or a private social club

One of the resources that comes up in this episode is Lillian’s book Defrocked. We also mention the intergenerational Mitten Project and work in the Michigan Conference to develop congregations that are WISE for Mental Health.

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